The four suggestions you have promoted are both sensible and sound. But democratic political parties of the centre-left are increasingly beset by 'populist' issues such as immigration and and gender. Many politicians would prefer to ignore these phenomena as they deem them distasteful. But these matters have sufficient resonance with enough of the electorate to prove decisive in future elections. The broad left in Europe must adapt to these challenges. If not, ikt may find itself powerless.
There is little to disagree with here. But to argue for democracy you have to listen to what the other side says and go some way to address legitimate grievances. In Scotland half the population presently supports independence. There is an opportunity for Scottish Labour to argue for the importance of solidarity in the face of the threat from the USA and Russia. This gives Scottish Labour an opportunity to reach across the divide in Scotland by addressing legitimate grievances (not caused but continued by the UK Labour government). Labour should, while arguing for solidarity, also make a big offer to revive the Scottish economy and reinvigorate devolved democracy, which should include:
- reform of the energy market so that the Scottish economy can benefit from cheap electricity generated in Scotland not be stifled by higher energy costs than in the south east of England
- a substantial say for the Scottish Government on immigration to Scotland
- devolution of inheritance tax and corporation tax and income tax on dividends and other non-employment, non-property income
- the opportunity and support for Scotland to negotiate a return to the European Single Market on similar terms to Northern Ireland
- reform of the Single Market Act so devolved initiatives cannot be stifled or stalled on the whim of a UK minister
To offer this gives Scottish Labour a chance of return. I hope they take it - otherwise solidarity offered by Scots in the face of the threat may turn to bitterness
Lots of agree with here but....Devolution of inheritance tax means far far less money for Scotland. Why would we give up a share of the estates which pay IHT - which are mainly outside of Scotland. Makes no sense. Agree on the idea that this has to be bigger than one party. Is a threat to our entire way of life and needs to be an approach made to all mainstream parties. If leaders choose to sit outside that consensus - hell bloody mend them.
Taxes so far have not been devolved on the basis that a share of the revenues proportionate to the Scottish population is deducted from the block grant (which is what you’re suggesting). What would be deducted from the grant is an estimate of the actual current revenues from Scotland (if it’s devolved in the same way as income tax). So there wouldn’t be the problem you suggest.
If Scotland had more autonomy to invest, (and the UK government didn’t focus investment on SE England as the chancellor did recently) and was relieved of evidently unfair arrangements in the electricity market, perhaps there wouldn’t be the disparity in property prices between SE England and Scotland that causes your concern about the different levels of wealth and hence different levels of inheritance tax revenues.
I agree that democratic parties in Scotland need to show solidarity with democratic English parties - but to make that possible the UK government needs to act to address legitimate grievances of Scotland. More devolution will also help address the structural problems of the UK that cause its low productivity and poor distribution of wealth.
For you to say that on inheritance tax you have to have figures (I do). So share for me the figure for how much inheritance tax we pay in Scotland as a share of the total UK tax take. You won't. Because you don't have any figures. You're making a case based on faith, not finances. Faith don't pay the bills. That your political viewpoint would lead you to a damaging position on taxation without ever asking for a moment what the numbers are should worry you. Really though, you should worry more that even a post about global security leads you to same broken arguments about nationalism.
First things first: the rhetoric about broken arguments on nationalism is just tiresome. And you’re making assumptions about my political views that just aren’t valid.
What I’m pointing out is that, in the present situation, Labour have a responsibility and also an opportunity to make a decent offer to win over thè half of Scotland that right now wants independence. It would be a good thing for the UK both internally and externally as well as a good thing for Scotland if it could do that.
Secondly, on the point about IHT, I completely acknowledge that IHT revenue in Scotland is much lower per head than in England. Of course it is. We don’t have the same crazy house prices as SE England (ours are high enough and we wouldn’t want them higher) and we don’t have as many very wealthy people as live in and around the SE.
But that’s beside the point as regards how the tax would be devolved (if it’s devolved in the same way as income tax on earned income and property income).
As you know, Scotland gets a block grant. When income tax was devolved, the estimated Scottish revenues were deducted from the grant, and now Scotland gets an amount equal to (an estimate of) actual Scottish revenues, alongside the residual block grant.
There’s no reason IHT couldn’t be done that way too.
But what you seem to be suggesting is different: that the only way devolution of IHT can happen is if a share of IHT revenues proportional to Scotland’s population (rather than the actual current Scottish IHT revenues) is deducted from the block grant. Of course that wouldn’t work and would be totally unfair.
Devolution of IHT would make it much easier to create a decent local property tax or maybe land value tax.
There might be sound arguments against devolution of IHT, but what you’re saying isn’t.
Yes I hadn't missed the point that you think the answer to the global crisis in democracy is Scottish nationalism. Look. Devolving a tax either means it is devolved or it isn't. You've finally acknowledged we raise far less per head. That means we would raise less. Doing these gymnastics to avoid acknowledging that fact is pointless. Again: you should probably ask yourself why you think the point of taxation policy is to prove scottishness rather than to raise money to fund scottish services. For my part I'm not wasting any more time on this.
Blair, you’re evidently not reading what I’m writing. You don’t want to engage. You evidently think in categories of goodies and baddies and who’s on your side and who isn’t. You don’t really understand how devolution works and you’re not interested in making it work better. So it’s not really worth discussing this further.
The four suggestions you have promoted are both sensible and sound. But democratic political parties of the centre-left are increasingly beset by 'populist' issues such as immigration and and gender. Many politicians would prefer to ignore these phenomena as they deem them distasteful. But these matters have sufficient resonance with enough of the electorate to prove decisive in future elections. The broad left in Europe must adapt to these challenges. If not, ikt may find itself powerless.
There is little to disagree with here. But to argue for democracy you have to listen to what the other side says and go some way to address legitimate grievances. In Scotland half the population presently supports independence. There is an opportunity for Scottish Labour to argue for the importance of solidarity in the face of the threat from the USA and Russia. This gives Scottish Labour an opportunity to reach across the divide in Scotland by addressing legitimate grievances (not caused but continued by the UK Labour government). Labour should, while arguing for solidarity, also make a big offer to revive the Scottish economy and reinvigorate devolved democracy, which should include:
- reform of the energy market so that the Scottish economy can benefit from cheap electricity generated in Scotland not be stifled by higher energy costs than in the south east of England
- a substantial say for the Scottish Government on immigration to Scotland
- devolution of inheritance tax and corporation tax and income tax on dividends and other non-employment, non-property income
- the opportunity and support for Scotland to negotiate a return to the European Single Market on similar terms to Northern Ireland
- reform of the Single Market Act so devolved initiatives cannot be stifled or stalled on the whim of a UK minister
To offer this gives Scottish Labour a chance of return. I hope they take it - otherwise solidarity offered by Scots in the face of the threat may turn to bitterness
Lots of agree with here but....Devolution of inheritance tax means far far less money for Scotland. Why would we give up a share of the estates which pay IHT - which are mainly outside of Scotland. Makes no sense. Agree on the idea that this has to be bigger than one party. Is a threat to our entire way of life and needs to be an approach made to all mainstream parties. If leaders choose to sit outside that consensus - hell bloody mend them.
You’re incorrect about inheritance tax.
Taxes so far have not been devolved on the basis that a share of the revenues proportionate to the Scottish population is deducted from the block grant (which is what you’re suggesting). What would be deducted from the grant is an estimate of the actual current revenues from Scotland (if it’s devolved in the same way as income tax). So there wouldn’t be the problem you suggest.
If Scotland had more autonomy to invest, (and the UK government didn’t focus investment on SE England as the chancellor did recently) and was relieved of evidently unfair arrangements in the electricity market, perhaps there wouldn’t be the disparity in property prices between SE England and Scotland that causes your concern about the different levels of wealth and hence different levels of inheritance tax revenues.
I agree that democratic parties in Scotland need to show solidarity with democratic English parties - but to make that possible the UK government needs to act to address legitimate grievances of Scotland. More devolution will also help address the structural problems of the UK that cause its low productivity and poor distribution of wealth.
For you to say that on inheritance tax you have to have figures (I do). So share for me the figure for how much inheritance tax we pay in Scotland as a share of the total UK tax take. You won't. Because you don't have any figures. You're making a case based on faith, not finances. Faith don't pay the bills. That your political viewpoint would lead you to a damaging position on taxation without ever asking for a moment what the numbers are should worry you. Really though, you should worry more that even a post about global security leads you to same broken arguments about nationalism.
Blair,
First things first: the rhetoric about broken arguments on nationalism is just tiresome. And you’re making assumptions about my political views that just aren’t valid.
What I’m pointing out is that, in the present situation, Labour have a responsibility and also an opportunity to make a decent offer to win over thè half of Scotland that right now wants independence. It would be a good thing for the UK both internally and externally as well as a good thing for Scotland if it could do that.
Secondly, on the point about IHT, I completely acknowledge that IHT revenue in Scotland is much lower per head than in England. Of course it is. We don’t have the same crazy house prices as SE England (ours are high enough and we wouldn’t want them higher) and we don’t have as many very wealthy people as live in and around the SE.
But that’s beside the point as regards how the tax would be devolved (if it’s devolved in the same way as income tax on earned income and property income).
As you know, Scotland gets a block grant. When income tax was devolved, the estimated Scottish revenues were deducted from the grant, and now Scotland gets an amount equal to (an estimate of) actual Scottish revenues, alongside the residual block grant.
There’s no reason IHT couldn’t be done that way too.
But what you seem to be suggesting is different: that the only way devolution of IHT can happen is if a share of IHT revenues proportional to Scotland’s population (rather than the actual current Scottish IHT revenues) is deducted from the block grant. Of course that wouldn’t work and would be totally unfair.
Devolution of IHT would make it much easier to create a decent local property tax or maybe land value tax.
There might be sound arguments against devolution of IHT, but what you’re saying isn’t.
Yes I hadn't missed the point that you think the answer to the global crisis in democracy is Scottish nationalism. Look. Devolving a tax either means it is devolved or it isn't. You've finally acknowledged we raise far less per head. That means we would raise less. Doing these gymnastics to avoid acknowledging that fact is pointless. Again: you should probably ask yourself why you think the point of taxation policy is to prove scottishness rather than to raise money to fund scottish services. For my part I'm not wasting any more time on this.
Blair, you’re evidently not reading what I’m writing. You don’t want to engage. You evidently think in categories of goodies and baddies and who’s on your side and who isn’t. You don’t really understand how devolution works and you’re not interested in making it work better. So it’s not really worth discussing this further.
So true.